#1  
Old 27th May 2005, 05:18 AM
David Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT: .Net Future

I thought this was rather interesting:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/artic...1820607,00.asp
  #2  
Old 27th May 2005, 12:01 PM
Hannes Danzl[NDD]
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: OT: .Net Future

David Guest wrote:

> I thought this was rather interesting:
>
> http://www.microsoft-watch.com/artic...1820607,00.asp


David, just to put that article into correct light.

I have never heard before that Microsoft claimed Longhorn is built on .NET.
That's simply a wrong claim, and since the whole article is based on this
claim, the article is nil.

Just my opinion about it, no pun intended David

--

Hannes Danzl [NexusDB Developer]
Newsgroup archive at http://www.tamaracka.com/search.htm
  #3  
Old 27th May 2005, 12:03 PM
Eryk Bottomley
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: OT: .Net Future

Hannes,

> I have never heard before that Microsoft claimed Longhorn is built on
> .NET.
> That's simply a wrong claim, and since the whole article is based on this
> claim, the article is nil.


http://msdn.microsoft.com/longhorn/d...n/default.aspx

....OK, so it doesn't directly say ".NYET" ....just "managed code" ...the
intention is clear though. This is just another back-pedal after the
postponment of WinFS.

Eryk


  #4  
Old 27th May 2005, 12:18 PM
Hannes Danzl[NDD]
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: OT: .Net Future

Eryk Bottomley wrote:

> Hannes,
>
> > I have never heard before that Microsoft claimed Longhorn is built on
> > .NET.
> > That's simply a wrong claim, and since the whole article is based on this
> > claim, the article is nil.

>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/longhorn/d...ssues/04/01/De
> velopingAppsforLonghorn/default.aspx
>
> ...OK, so it doesn't directly say ".NYET" ....just "managed code" ...the
> intention is clear though. This is just another back-pedal after the
> postponment of WinFS.


i agree on that, but:

"It is the first operating system built with managed code ..."

that's a long way from "built on top of the .Net Framework". I read it as
"makes (heavy) use of managed code" which it still will do. There was always
the plan to have heavily optimized native core services (system, data, ui,
....) that are the basis of the whole operating system and .net as the access
layer on top of it replacing the native api. thus applications and thus most
parts of the OS are written using managed code. After all the core of the OS
itself is not very large, maybe some 10 to 15 megs native code (without the
drivers)

--

Hannes Danzl [NexusDB Developer]
Newsgroup archive at http://www.tamaracka.com/search.htm
  #5  
Old 27th May 2005, 05:36 PM
Lauchlan M
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: OT: .Net Future

> >
http://msdn.microsoft.com/longhorn/d...ssues/04/01/De
> > velopingAppsforLonghorn/default.aspx
> >
> > ...OK, so it doesn't directly say ".NYET" ....just "managed code" ...the
> > intention is clear though. This is just another back-pedal after the
> > postponment of WinFS.

>
> i agree on that, but:
>
> "It is the first operating system built with managed code ..."
>
> that's a long way from "built on top of the .Net Framework". I read it as
> "makes (heavy) use of managed code" which it still will do. There was

always
> the plan to have heavily optimized native core services (system, data, ui,
> ...) that are the basis of the whole operating system and .net as the

access
> layer on top of it replacing the native api. thus applications and thus

most
> parts of the OS are written using managed code. After all the core of the

OS
> itself is not very large, maybe some 10 to 15 megs native code (without

the
> drivers)


But reading the rest of the article makes it pretty clear that making .net
central to it was a pretty clear intention, especially for security
purposes.

That's the way I read it, anyway.

Lauchlan M


  #6  
Old 27th May 2005, 06:26 PM
Bert Moorthaemer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: OT: .Net Future

Hannes,

>> After all the core of the OS
>> itself is not very large, maybe some 10 to 15 megs native code

That's the biggest "virus" in the world ... <g>

Bert.

"Hannes Danzl[NDD]" <hannes@nexusdb.dbnexus.com> wrote in message
news:xn0e2qy4a8ddrva035@news.nexusdb.com...
> Eryk Bottomley wrote:
>
>> Hannes,
>>
>> > I have never heard before that Microsoft claimed Longhorn is built on
>> > .NET.
>> > That's simply a wrong claim, and since the whole article is based on
>> > this
>> > claim, the article is nil.

>>
>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/longhorn/d...ssues/04/01/De
>> velopingAppsforLonghorn/default.aspx
>>
>> ...OK, so it doesn't directly say ".NYET" ....just "managed code" ...the
>> intention is clear though. This is just another back-pedal after the
>> postponment of WinFS.

>
> i agree on that, but:
>
> "It is the first operating system built with managed code ..."
>
> that's a long way from "built on top of the .Net Framework". I read it as
> "makes (heavy) use of managed code" which it still will do. There was
> always
> the plan to have heavily optimized native core services (system, data, ui,
> ...) that are the basis of the whole operating system and .net as the
> access
> layer on top of it replacing the native api. thus applications and thus
> most
> parts of the OS are written using managed code. After all the core of the
> OS
> itself is not very large, maybe some 10 to 15 megs native code (without
> the
> drivers)
>
> --
>
> Hannes Danzl [NexusDB Developer]
> Newsgroup archive at http://www.tamaracka.com/search.htm



  #7  
Old 31st May 2005, 06:58 AM
Brian Evans [NDX]
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: OT: .Net Future

Hannes Danzl[NDD] wrote:
>
> i agree on that, but:
>
> "It is the first operating system built with managed code ..."
>
> that's a long way from "built on top of the .Net Framework". I read it as
> "makes (heavy) use of managed code" which it still will do. There was always
> the plan to have heavily optimized native core services (system, data, ui,
> ...) that are the basis of the whole operating system and .net as the access
> layer on top of it replacing the native api. thus applications and thus most
> parts of the OS are written using managed code. After all the core of the OS
> itself is not very large, maybe some 10 to 15 megs native code (without the
> drivers)
>


It was hinted it would be computability/legacy layer providing
the Win32 API while underneath the hood it would be all .NET
managed code. So Win32 would in effect become a second class
citizen and .NET code would be more 'native' to the OS.

Now it's pretty obvious .NET will continue to be a layer above
the Win32 API in most cases. Over time various APIs will get
pure .NET managed versions. Also some new APIs might only
come out on the .NET side leaving Win32 to need call into
..NET code for that functionality. Long term this will lead
to Win32 being less preferred and .NET underpinning a lot
of functionality. Thing is some thought this would all
happen with the next release of Windows. Reality seems to
be give it 5 to 10 years.

A lot of supporting apps probably won't be rewritten to .NET
just for the sake of doing so as they already have enough
real work to do. The Win32 API itself will be supported
in some way for at least another 50 years and most likely
longer even if in some form of emulation or virtualization.

After getting sucked on to the 'everything will be Java'
train years ago I sure am not going to jump on a
'everything will be .NET' train now. This time I'll
wait till the train goes somewhere and ignore how
shiny and filled with potential it is. Java stations
and Java office suites were all shiny new and filled
with potential to revolutionize things but both never
never went anywhere in mainstream use.

Brian Evans [NDX]
  #8  
Old 31st May 2005, 07:14 AM
David Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: OT: .Net Future

Brian Evans [NDX] wrote:

> Hannes Danzl[NDD] wrote:
>
>>
>> i agree on that, but:
>>
>> "It is the first operating system built with managed code ..."
>>
>> that's a long way from "built on top of the .Net Framework". I read
>> it as
>> "makes (heavy) use of managed code" which it still will do. There was
>> always
>> the plan to have heavily optimized native core services (system,
>> data, ui,
>> ...) that are the basis of the whole operating system and .net as the
>> access
>> layer on top of it replacing the native api. thus applications and
>> thus most
>> parts of the OS are written using managed code. After all the core of
>> the OS
>> itself is not very large, maybe some 10 to 15 megs native code
>> (without the
>> drivers)
>>

>
> It was hinted it would be computability/legacy layer providing
> the Win32 API while underneath the hood it would be all .NET
> managed code. So Win32 would in effect become a second class
> citizen and .NET code would be more 'native' to the OS.
>
> Now it's pretty obvious .NET will continue to be a layer above
> the Win32 API in most cases. Over time various APIs will get
> pure .NET managed versions. Also some new APIs might only
> come out on the .NET side leaving Win32 to need call into
> .NET code for that functionality. Long term this will lead
> to Win32 being less preferred and .NET underpinning a lot
> of functionality. Thing is some thought this would all
> happen with the next release of Windows. Reality seems to
> be give it 5 to 10 years.
>
> A lot of supporting apps probably won't be rewritten to .NET
> just for the sake of doing so as they already have enough
> real work to do. The Win32 API itself will be supported
> in some way for at least another 50 years and most likely
> longer even if in some form of emulation or virtualization.
>
> After getting sucked on to the 'everything will be Java'
> train years ago I sure am not going to jump on a
> 'everything will be .NET' train now. This time I'll
> wait till the train goes somewhere and ignore how
> shiny and filled with potential it is. Java stations
> and Java office suites were all shiny new and filled
> with potential to revolutionize things but both never
> never went anywhere in mainstream use.
>
> Brian Evans [NDX]


I have seen some evidence of this already. The Ink Aware components
which are available for writing applications for the tablet PC are only
available to run in a .NET environment. Thus they can't be used in
win32 applications...


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